[Stadiumitis?]

Forward to 2008/09.

First of all here’s how rugby attendances compare to football in the Britain Isles when looking at the average gate of each league (season 2007/08):

1...Premiership................36,086
2...Championship............16,998
3…SPL. ...........................15,448 (8,061 without OF)
4…Guinness Prem............10,185
5…Super League...............9,793
6…League One.................7,998
7…Magners Celtic League...6,712
8…League Two.................4,341
9…SFL1.............................2,399
10..Nat Division 1 (RU)........2,236
11..Nat League 1 (RL)........2,199
12..Conference Premier.....1,787
13..Eircom League.............1,746 approx

We can say as means of a summary, the Guinness Prem & Super League attract more people per game on average than in League 1 (or the SPL not including the Old Firm) but less than the Championship; Celtic League games draw more than League 2 but not as many as in League 1.

For the first time in many years Guinness Premiership attendances did not increase this year. This can largely be put down to the loss of Northampton to the league during 07/08 (correspondingly National Division 1 showed a significant increase for the same reason). The Celtic League recorded a healthy increase this year, with Leinster moving to the RDS Ground (and winning the league) a significant factor in this. Super League attendances were virtually unchanged from last season.


Now a list by club of average rugby attendances in the British Isles during 2007/08 (ie. Sep to Sep), including on the right, a comparison with the local football club where a sole league club exists to allow a comparable comparison; * - indicates shared stadium, note all shared stadiums other than Watford and Stockport are new stadiums (less than 20 years old). For completeness, French Super League side Catalans also included.

Click on the club name for a ‘Birdseye’ view of the ground (where available).

......Club..................................................Av Att...vs 06/07◊.......Football Att...vs football
1.....Leicester Tigers.....................GP.....17,162.......+2.0%..................23,509..........-27.0%
A....Leeds Rhinos..........................SL.....15,622.........-11.0%.................25,720...........-39.3%º
B....Wigan Warriors.......................SL.....15,050.......-6.2%................19,046*..........-21.0%
i......Leinster (Dublin)....................CL.....13,970......+155.9%.................................................
2....Gloucester..............................GP......13,962......+14.6%...................................................
C....Hull FC...................................SL.......13,5432.......-8.0%.................18,037*.........-25.5%^
3.....Northampton Saints...............ND1....11,494......-12.3%...................5,409.........+112.5%
4......London Harlequins RU...........GP......11,296.........+2.8%.................................................
D....St Helens................................SL......10,642.....+11.2%...................................................
5.....Bath......................................GP......10,460........-0.7%...................................................
E.....Bradford Bulls........................SL......10,287.....-15.4%..................13,692..........-24.9%
6....Reading-London Irish............GP.......9,568......+19.7%.................23,585*.........-59.4%
F....Warrington Wolves.................SL.......9,500.......-10.0%...................................................
7.....Bristol...................................GP........9,175.......-19.3%..................................................
8.....Watford Saracens...................GP.......9,071.......+7.2%.................16,876*.........-46.3%
ii.....Ulster (Belfast)......................CL........8,984......-12.0%...................................................
9....Wycombe-London Wasps.....GP........8,766.......+3.7%..................4,746*.........+84.7%
10....Stockport-Sale Sharks...........GP........8,762......-6.8%...................5,643*.......+55.3%
iii....Swansea Ospreys...................CL.......8,753.......-3.0%................12,993*.........-32.6%
11....Worcester Warriors...............GP........8,710.....-10.0%....................................................
G....Hull Kingston Rovers.............SL......8,554........+19.5%.....................................................
H...Catalans Dragons (Perpignan).SL.......8,376.........-1.9%................................................
iv....Cardiff Blues..........................CL.......8,241.......+6.4%.................13,939...........-40.9%
I.......Huddersfield Giants..............SL......7,820.......+13.2%.................9,391*.........-16.7%
12...Leeds Tykes.........................GP......7,757.......+185.1%...............25,720...........-69.8%º
13...Newcastle Falcons.................GP.......7,530........-1.6%.................50,488..........-85.1%
J......Castleford Tigers...................NL1.....7,501.......+48.1% .................................................
v.....Llanelli Scarlets.....................CL.......7,314.......+14.3%..................................................
vi....Munster (Limerick-Cork)........CL.......7,106........-1.2%..................................................
K...Wakefield Trinity Wildcats.....SL.......6,962.........+1.4%.................................................
vii...Newport-Gwent Dragons......CL.......5,442.........-2.3%..................................................
L...Widnes Vikings.....................NL1.....4,518.........+32.6%................................................
14...Exeter Chiefs........................ND1.....4,034.........+21.6%...............................................
M.....Salford City Reds..................SL.......4,026.......-22.6%.....................................................
N....London Harlequins RL...........SL......3,777.......+11.2%.................................................
15...Cambourne Cornish Pirates....ND1.....3,486.........+35.8%................................................
16...Plymouth Albion...................ND1.....3,338.........+5.2%................................................
viii..Edinburgh................................CL.......2,889.........+7.6%.................................................
O....Leigh Centurions...................NL1.....2,490.......+33.3%..................................................
17...Bedford Blues........................ND1.....2,342........-7.8%..................................................
P....Halifax..................................NL1......2,256.......+15.2%..................................................
ix...Connacht (Galway).................CL.......2,248........+13.5%.................................................
Q....Bridgend Celtic Crusaders......NL1.....2,173...........-.....................................................
x....Glasgow (Partick) Warriors.....CL.......2,170.........+3.8%.................................................
R....Whitehaven...........................NL1.....1,702.......-14.6%..................................................
18...Nottingham...........................ND1.....1,511..........+5.4%..................................................
..................................................... .................................................06/07◊............................
...........................Average.............GP....10,185.......-3.5%..............10,555...............
...........................Average.............SL......9,793......-0.6%................9,852...............
...........................Average.............CL.....6,712........+23.1%..............5,450..............

◊ - covers Super League 2007
Note: table does not include European, cup or play-off games, nor the GP opening day ‘London double header’ at Twickenham on 15 Sep 07 or the SL ‘Millenium Magic’ weekend on 3&4 May 08. For the record, attendances at play-off games were: Gloucester 16500, Wasps 10000, Leeds Rhinos 13112, St Helens 11407, Catalans 9985 & 8442, Wigan 6806, Salford 2607 & 1871, Leigh 2306, Halifax 2302 & 1931.
^ , º - Note: Combined senior rugby attendance in Hull is 21,849 (+21.1% vs football) when taking into account Hull Kingston Rovers and combined rugby attendance in Leeds is 23,379 (-9.1% vs football) when considering both codes together

Some comment:
• Rugby crowds have shown a general upward trend in recent years, although this year’s Guinness Premiership did show a slight decline (largely due to the absence of Northampton).
• Rugby League traditionally drew bigger crowds than Union (the Union league has only formally existed since the 1980’s), however in recent years the Guinness Prem has overtaken Super League.
• Of the fifteen football comparisons made, three show larger crowds for the local Rugby side. Wycombe and Stockport can’t match Wasps and Sale crowds with the rugby clubs drawing people from much wider areas than Wanderers and County do, whilst Northampton Town would have to expand Sixfields (and probably get to the Premiership) to match Saints current crowds.
• Towns where rugby easily outdraws the local non-league football club include Newport, Bath, Gloucester and Worcester. Whilst football is all but ignored in the likes of St Helens, Warrington, Widnes, Wakefield and Llanelli.

[Hazzman]

St Helens Town F.C get crowds of 35, they have been screwed to the near point of extinction by the rugby side
Warrington Town, crowds of mid 100s.
Wakefield, same as Warrington
Llanelli Welsh Champions and in Europe average nearly 400.

To be honest its quite good to see a balance but hate the idea of St Helens destroying its footie team

I think St Helens crowds have more to do with 3 well-attended clubs down the road.

[Smudge]

St Helens Town F.C get crowds of 35, they have been screwed to the near point of extinction by the rugby side

To be honest its quite good to see a balance but hate the idea of St Helens destroying its footie team

How exactly?

[Irish Blood English Heart]

Here:

http://blogs.guardia...harity_for.html

[gary]

Very interesting. i hadnt appreciated how the attendances of the top ten or so clubs had grown to all exceed 10,000.

[Hazzman]

St Helens Town F.C get crowds of 35, they have been screwed to the near point of extinction by the rugby side
Warrington Town, crowds of mid 100s.
Wakefield, same as Warrington
Llanelli Welsh Champions and in Europe average nearly 400.

To be honest its quite good to see a balance but hate the idea of St Helens destroying its footie team

I think St Helens crowds have more to do with 3 well-attended clubs down the road.

No, that rugby club need shooting. Yes you may say non-league football isn't big in West Cheshire. Runcorn Linnets, Prescot Cables, Warrington all get poor grounds but appropriate crowds for their level.

I'm led to believe St Helens rugby took the FC United cash, they left the rugby posts in when Glossop North End visited early season, they couldn't get them out and they were forced to postpone. The footie team's crowds are awful and had said they may need to fold.

Pretty disgusting. I live 20 miles from Manchester but its not all rugby league, the local rugby union side Sale Sharks have very good relations with schools, including ours! 20 miles from Stockport but it shows, a change of code and a change of relations.

I wasn't aware of the havoc that the Saints were causing to the football club.

[Smudge]

Here:

http://blogs.guardia...harity_for.html

Seems a bit of a one sided article, and reading the comments below it is interesting. Saints' response to the article is here. It would appear that Saints have been sensible enough to stay within the law, and people can say its heartless all they like, every club is a business at the end of the day, and cant be expected to keep a separate club for free if tey cant support themselves. Is Saints owe Town money, would they prefer to keep paying rent to be allowed to play at Saints' ground, or be given what they're owed and be kicked out?

The football crowds are crap because the team are rubbish.

The rugby crowds are big because the team is good.

If the rugby team weren't there, St Helens Town would be no better off than they are now, if not worse off.

Have Brentford's crowds shot up since the London Broncos left? Nope. If they fold it's their own fault, it's nothing to do with the League team.

I agree. When the Wigan clubs first moved to the JJB, it was said that the ground was built for the rugby, since the football didnt have the crowds to justify it. Wrong, as the JJB was built with the vision that Latics would one day be that big. Now both clubs are playing in the top division of their sport, and Latics have a higher average (may not be the case at the end of the season I know, with home games with Saints and potentially play-offs to come for Warriors) Wigan were getting 4k regularly in Division 2 season 2001-2002. Not because of anything other than the team were awful.

Interestingly, in the 50s, Springfield Park was damaged by fire, meaning the capacity was seriously reduced, and the ground had no changing rooms. (Its quite infamous that the players had to get changed at Wigan Baths!) Latics aproached Warriors about using Central Park for an FA Cup game with Newcastle, and Warriors said no. At the end of the day, clubs have to look after their own interests before they can start giving something for free to another unrelated club.

[Stadiumitis?]

Opening post updated to reflect the end of the Rugby League season.

See also BrianC's 'Whither Rugby? 2007/08' articles on Guinness Premiership attendances here and here.

[PaulC]

Football v Rugby Attendances – Comparing averages 2007/08

3…SPL. ...........................15,448 (8,061 without OF)


We can say as means of a summary, the Guinness Prem & Super League attract more people per game on average than in League 1 (or the SPL not including the Old Firm)

Why these distinctions?

[Stadiumitis?]

Why these distinctions?

Because, more than any other league in the British Isles, the SPL is really two leagues when it comes to attendances.

When the removal of two clubs almost halves the league average attendance I think it's worth highlighting.

[Jack]

Just a minor point, but our average attendance was 13,520 for last season.

Ospreys are not helped by high ticket prices, most games being on TV and a lot of teams playing their reserve sides. Just over 8k for a game against Cardiff Blues is shocking, but not really surprising. They have no problem selling out the big Heineken cup fixtures though.

[South Bank]

This is interesting, Super League's averages from 2000 compared to 2008. Only two clubs with a smaller average, and Cas negligibly so.

Average - 2000 vs 2008
Bradford: 14,520 vs 10,287
Castleford: 7,980 vs 7,501
Harlequins: 3,431 vs 3,909
Huddersfield: 3,392 vs 7,820
Hull FC: 5,940 vs 13,432
Leeds: 12,674 vs 17,043
Saints: 8,809 vs 10,642
Wakefield: 4,621 vs 6,962
Warrington: 6,872 vs 9,500
Wigan: 10,536 vs 14,505

Halifax: 5,714 vs Hull KR: 8,623
Salford: 4,452 vs Catalans: 8,376

[Fookov]

Bradford's an interesting one, going down since moving to their own ground. How much of it'll be down to moving from covered all-seater to mostly uncovered terracing?

[South Bank]

They were at Odsal for the 2000 season. They moved to Valley Parade the year after (would be interesting to see the figures for that year).

I think their difference is probably largely down to a change in fortunes. Since then Leeds have shown a similar pattern in reverse.

[womer_uk]

A number of reasons really .....

A lot of so called "Bulls fans" are kids and band wagon jumpers, mostly from outside the South Bradford area, who now watch it on $ky.

Modern rugby league is too predictable and boring, as it's a copy of the Australian game, (if you've seen one Super League game, you've seen 'em all), so a lot of the old sweats, (like me) don't go anymore, or watch the amateur game (like me).

Most of the traditional Bradford Bulls support comes from the South of the city, (about I'd say 75%), and wouldn't go to Valley Parade. (The roles are reversed for Bradford City).

The sponsors didn't like Valley Parade one bit, and neither did the fans, the reason was no atmosphere..... (No fireworks going off, or loud banging music could be played there due to the Pakistani majority in the area complaining to the local authority about it, though of course, we still have to put up with it in South Bradford).

BTW the corpo are putting in £15 million for the Odsal Sports Village, using some of the money from the sale of Yeadon Airport, so Odsal in it's current state may only last another season or two, with matches probably being played at Huddersfield or even Elland Rd.

[Bradford End]

The Bulls averaged 11,488 at Valley Parade in 2002 - Alot didn't go because they said our stadium was utter shite. - Hmmm?

Their highest attendance in that very season was 16,572 against St.Helens - The highest attendance at Valley Parade whilst hosted by the Bulls (Bradford Northern) is 20,973 back in 1926 for a challenge cup match against Keighley.

[owlfan74]

This is interesting, Super League's averages from 2000 compared to 2008. Only two clubs with a smaller average, and Cas negligibly so.

Average - 2000 vs 2008
Bradford: 14,520 vs 10,287
Castleford: 7,980 vs 7,501
Harlequins: 3,431 vs 3,909
Huddersfield: 3,392 vs 7,820
Hull FC: 5,940 vs 13,432
Leeds: 12,674 vs 17,043
Saints: 8,809 vs 10,642
Wakefield: 4,621 vs 6,962
Warrington: 6,872 vs 9,500
Wigan: 10,536 vs 14,505

Halifax: 5,714 vs Hull KR: 8,623
Salford: 4,452 vs Catalans: 8,376

also interesting to note is that both hull fc and warrington saw large increases in attendances after moving into brand new stadiums, despite little sucess for either team over the last 20 years.
another thing to note, despite being tagged as the wrost supported team huddersfield giants have just seen successive 5 figure crowds for the time in super league ( since 98) and the crowd of 10,549 on friday was a record super league crowd against hull fc. our average this season stands at just over 11,000, but no doubt the visit of harlequins will see that come down, not bad considering we were struggling to attract even 1000 fans 20 years ago and again despite having no major success for 40 years